Curse

Mooglepinoy22 · Oct 04, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Before I explain the build I need to say one thing. It annoys me to no end to the hundreds of sins that use the builds which always seem to have at least 3 of these skills, AoD, Fangs, Spider, Mobieus, and Ox. Now I know they're good skills but it's just extremely annoying to how people still keep posting their "killer new build", which seems to be REALLY similar to every other "new sin build" but I'm keeping my opinions to myself for it's usually obvious most of these players are new at being assassins or something similar. In creating new builds I avoid these skills as much as humanly possible, which is easy but still plenty hard to find an effective build. Here's a build I have found effective by thinking a little out of the box:
Used mainly for Fort Aspenwood+AB

Armor+Weapon
Infiltrator's Armor, Since it protects against piercing damage it makes rangers less of a threat (They seem to be able to do the most damage for some odd reason).
The weapon isn't as researched as much for it isn't used as much but I use a pair with +5 Nrg, Fortitude, and lengthen poison (33%).

Attributes
Critical Strikes 10+3 = 13
Deadly Arts 8+3+1 = 12
Wilderness Survival 12

Skills
Dancing Daggers
Entangling Asp
Seeping Wound {Elite}
Mantis Touch
Dryder's Defenses
Troll Unguent
Brambles
Other Iron Palm, Expunge Enchantments, Rez

Strategy
Before going into battle set up brambles in a semi-safe spot within range of the target. Get close to the target and go through the first 4 skills. What's done next is staying in range taking full advantage of the cripple to use the throwing dagger skill repeatedly but in some cases of melee fights, kite around the enemy while doing the above. If the worst happens, such as being mobbed or spiked, Dryder's Defense is effective whether those things happen going into battle or coming out but it's used sparingly because of the long recharge time.

In the case of choosing the "other" skill Iron Palm can be used after mantis touch for an inturrupt/knockdown or to quickly end a target with a tiny hit of unblockable damage. I use that the most, but Expunge Enchantments come in handy especially against Healing Breeze, for even though the degen overtakes HB by a couple pips it unnecessarily lengthens the battle.

Advantages/Disadvantages:For space I'll just list the big Pros and Cons.

Unexpected
Nobody would expect the sin to NOT fight you up close and personal which brings it to the next point...

Ranged
Even though it's half the range of a shortbow the range is still plenty important for it allows for kiting, a huge strategy in many of my special sin builds. And on a still related point you're able to hit people on different grounds (If you're close enough), meaning that the caster up top thinking he's safe has another thing coming...even if they are behind a wall (which brings to the next point!).

Unblockable
One of this build's greatest advantages is no matter what skill the enemy uses, be it whirling defense or displacement, nothing can stop you with going through the combo because EVEN IF the enemy is BEHIND A WALL Dancing daggers will always start the combo to allow the entangling asp to go through. And because it's a spell it CAN'T be blocked or evaded so it can still be fired away regardless.

Now Cons
Slower Kills
Mainly using degan this build isn't as much as a spiker as most other sin builds but it's a much more reliable and less reckless+dangerous way to kill people.

Time
The main skills (Asp+Brambles) as well as the healing and defense skill have long recharge times and Troll Unguent likes to take it's time to start up, yet good timing and positioning keeps this kind of problem at a minimum.

Now as a concluding statement I'd like to say I'm entirely open to critique and your ideas on this build since it's definately different yet fun to play because of that. And lastly if anybody else has some original effective builds I'd love to hear what you've created!

Pick Me · Oct 04, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

First off, I'll give you props and two thumbs up for your original build.

I do however disagree with your notion of unblockable damage. Spellbreaker, Obsidian Flesh are two of the 3 ways that can stop you combo (both listed here ar elites).

You are subject to interupts (mesmer, interupt assassins, interupt rangers, and mark of subversion).

When you prepare your brambles, I would think it would be setup prior to your combo, thus a bit far away. This would mean an intelligent player would either, kill the brambles or move out of its range. Most people won't bother with killing the brambles though.

Its seems very energy intensive, and with nothing giving you energy back (as none of your skills will utilize the critical strike attribute - save your elite), you won't get any energy back (since you can't do critical hits - as far as I know, spells won't trigger critical hit chances).

Shouldn't you boost Deadly Arts and lower Critical Strike? I mean most of your skills are in DA and only your elite is in CS.

The main point however, is you find it fun to play, and since you didn't note that energy was a problem, I'm guessing patients was a factor too.

As for builds, I have read about 1 for a A/Me that only uses Twisted Fangs (out of your list) and I created a A/W that doesn't use any of the skills that you listed either.

I have used Twisted Fangs, Fox Fangs, AoD, Ox, but I've never used Mobieus Strike (can't be bothered to wait until the enemy is down to 50% before using a skill - did that with Final Thrust, it kept killing me to keep waiting).

Again, good job on your build.

Evilsod · Oct 04, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

What do you intend to do with that build? Tickle people?

You have no weapon. So do absolutely no damage between 'combo's. Infiltrators Armour would make very little difference against a ranger carrying Kindle Arrows or an elemental bow...

Brambles... Which sucks.

Who gives a toss if its unexpected. It takes you that long to kill something they'll be bored by the end of it. Seeping Wound just sucks. A warrior using Meteor Shower is unexpected, that doesn't mean its good.

Unblockable isn't a pro... All spells are unblockable, it doesn't make them better. Way of the Fox makes your spike unblockable... then its an advantage.

Seriously... this build has no use at all. Probably why its not been copied.

Pick Me... since when did Mark of Subversion stop spells targetted at foes?

sgtclarity · Oct 04, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Yes... there's really nothing more to critique after sod's post.
Congratulations on originality, too bad the build isn't much use at all.
There is a reason why TF, Horns, AoD and even Moebius are widely used, it's because *surprise* they're some of the best assassin skills availiable.

Shuuda · Oct 04, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Actually I dislike horns of the Ox, I prefer shock because you cannot use ox in the middle of a crowd(e.g, you want to take out the monk in the middle of a group, Ox will fail you)

Pick Me · Oct 04, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

What do you intend to do with that build? Tickle people?

You have no weapon. So do absolutely no damage between 'combo's. Infiltrators Armour would make very little difference against a ranger carrying Kindle Arrows or an elemental bow...

Brambles... Which sucks.

Who gives a toss if its unexpected. It takes you that long to kill something they'll be bored by the end of it. Seeping Wound just sucks. A warrior using Meteor Shower is unexpected, that doesn't mean its good.

Unblockable isn't a pro... All spells are unblockable, it doesn't make them better. Way of the Fox makes your spike unblockable... then its an advantage.

Seriously... this build has no use at all. Probably why its not been copied.

Pick Me... since when did Mark of Subversion stop spells targetted at foes?

Since it is a hex that will interupt a spell from being cast (stops 1 spell, has a long recharge time). Interupts and heals the caster who casted Mark of Subversion. No, it does not do a continuous interupt, no it isn't spamable to interupt people, nor does it prevent all caster from casting spells. But it can interupt a chain spell combo.

As you can see, this isn't a build where you see a sin and then you see a body on the floor right beside the guy/girl who killed him/her.

As stated, original build, no one said it was the best build in the game, nor did anyone say that it can't die. Its fun, new, and outside of the thinking box.

Evilsod · Oct 04, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Since it is a hex that will interupt a spell from being cast (stops 1 spell, has a long recharge time). Interupts and heals the caster who casted Mark of Subversion. No, it does not do a continuous interupt, no it isn't spamable to interupt people, nor does it prevent all caster from casting spells. But it can interupt a chain spell combo.

I really don't think your getting this are you... Let me spell it out for you.

For 4...9 seconds, the next time target foe casts a Spell that targets an ally of that foe, the Spell fails and you steal up to 10...76 Health from that foe.

NOTHING on that skillbar targets an ALLY therefore Mark of Subversion WILL NOT ACTIVATE. Do you understand yet?

Pick Me · Oct 04, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I really don't think your getting this are you... Let me spell it out for you.

For 4...9 seconds, the next time target foe casts a Spell that targets an ally of that foe, the Spell fails and you steal up to 10...76 Health from that foe.

NOTHING on that skillbar targets an ALLY therefore Mark of Subversion WILL NOT ACTIVATE. Do you understand yet?

Yes. I understand now. Thank you.

Mooglepinoy22 · Oct 05, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

One thing I need to say which didn't seem to come up for some people was that this is a degen build so if it wasn't clear where the damage came from then I'm sorry. To respond to some of the questions asked, most spell-based builds are susceptible to mesmer-based inturrupts without any stances or anti-spell skills, and with the fast recharge of the lead attack one can prepare for the inturruption of rangers or assassins by using Dryder's defenses for the more important off-hand attack to go through.

Brambles, even though it's plenty useful adding to the degan of the combo, doesn't always need to be up. I've had instances where people forgot about me and attacked the spirit but because of the fact that Critical Strikes is at 13 the people going for brambles still get a good -8 degan for about 17 seconds (if brambles happens to die first, otherwise it's it's -11 with a cap at -9).

Why I have Critical strikes at 13 is very important for it allows the maximum amount of degan all around an equal amount of time. If CS was any lower I'd lose a pip of degan which I see as more important in this build. What I mean by an equal amount of time is that at the max brambles is 17 seconds bleeding so to make it even I get Asp to be 17 seconds and Seeping Wound 18 seconds.

And lastly energy management hasn't been a problem really, there's enough energy to go through the combo and that's all one pretty much needs. Firing dancing daggers can keep your energy low but the defensive skills of this build cost only 5 energy each in the first place. It doesn't take long to get 10 energy to use entangling asp and even if you're in a hurry and can't cast Seeping Wound the Brambles spirit should do fine in adding some extra degan to the target while you kite away biding your time.

What I like best about this build and less about most other sin builds is that it's very reliable in all parts of the battle, offensively and defensively. You could have a huge awesome spike build that never misses but if you don't hit first you're done for, I've seen many a sin fall to my build because I'm just out of their crippled reach.

Basically what most of the other sin builds I've seen are for big damage to their target, but when something like Dolyak Signet or Healing Hands comes along their usefulness is drastically reduced (And ended). You could say that you have ANOTHER build which can counter it but making a build which counters everything is key in the builds I make.

When I make a build I take a lot of time thinking about many things, like what people usually do to counter other people, what's unused, what's something nobody's thought of, all in all coming to what COULD be a good build, or at least an interesting one. Skills like Seeping Wound are weird, yes, but with thinking and experience I saw that a fast and even way to get bleeding and poison on somebody would be the Entangling+Brambles combo I use, 17 seconds both bleeding and poison! Perfect for Seeping Wound. Unique builds blossom from ideas like that.

Scourgey · Oct 05, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I don't like the build. The reason being is it's of little use if a monk is around to remove the conditions. The recharge on the skills to apply conditions are too high to be considered serious threat. This is the most common counter to your build, it's what every (good) monk has in their skill bar, some condition removal!

Sure it may work in AB, but most things work as many of the teams there don't have monks (or the monk is 5 screens away from the rest of the team).

Mooglepinoy22 · Oct 07, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

You're pretty much right scourgey, but I don't use this build much outside of AB. In fact I never do, it says it's use is for AB and Fort Aspenwood. But it's a valid insight, and just because somebody can remove the conditions this build causes doesn't mean I'm unable to defeat them, they're just a bit more troublesome.

Mr Jazzy · Oct 07, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

The build is original, yup. But you really just focusing on a degen build, except masking them under skills, which you hope the enemy will not notice. New players might be confused, but for anyone experienced, they'll notice the down arrow pips on their bar.

go for blood/curses nec, using skils like vamp gaze, life siphon, faintheartedness, and offering of blood. better e management, damage, consistent degen, and has spammability.